Why HHO works to save fuel


Lets not try to get to technical here, I’ve read every description of why HHO works to save gasoline I can find. Some explanations can get mind boggling, and others a high school chemistry student can prove right or wrong. So here is my explanation and theory, added to all the others for you to decide.

Gasoline burns in the engine with about a 15:1 air ratio, 15 parts air, 1 part fuel
The gas engine is basically inefficient, only about 20-30% efficient, and thus releases massive amounts of heat and wasted fuel.
Introduce HHO, a combination of Oxygen and Hydrogen, ready to burn, in the correct ratio, and only produces water, power and heat.
The HHO replaces gas and air, that the engine requires, when gasoline is replaced by HHO, fuel mileage goes up. You dont need more air, the proper mix is already there, you need less gasoline.

As a byproduct the gasoline is burned more completely, burning the heavier parts, the nanocanes, the dodocanes, the octanes, etc., making a cleaner engine, wasting less fuel. Hydrogen has about 3 times the energy of gasoline and thus replaces about 3 parts of gasoline for each part of HHO used.

I have begun to suspect that the Hydrogen or Oxygen, or both possible break down the heavier hydrocarbons into lighter ones. The lighter ones burn more efficiently, like pentane, propane and methane, thus utilizing more of the available power.

A fact that cant be overlooked, is that the oxygen sensors have to be adjusted (hacked) to prevent the cars ‘brain’ from adding more gas because of the higher sensed oxygen levels. We’re adding more oxygen with the HHO, to the air intake, the car doesn’t sense the more fuel, only the oxygen. It turns out there are also O2 sensor extenders that will prevent the rich state from more oxygen by moving the O2 sensor further from the exhaust flow (only for exhaust O2 sensors).

Gasohol, look at that same chart, mix gas with ethanol, methanol, etc which all have less energy per unit, and the gasoline energy goes down! Does this mean there’s less energy per gallon of fuel, at the same low efficiency conversion, for the car? And we pay more for the fuel! But, again the fuel does contain some of its own oxygen for burning, so mileage apparently stays about the same, but cleans up the burning.

You’ll also notice in the same chart, that the octane number is higher, so that it is roughly equivalent to running on the alcohol and methanol. So that tells me that as the levels of HHO are increased to 10% or more of the fuel needed, the timing will have to be changed to compensate, and eliminate harmful pinging.

Ideally, the engine would draw pure HHO, for whatever engine speed, in the correct amount, with no additional air. The additional air would prevent combustion, and/or run so lean as to melt down the engine.
So for now, replacing a portion of the intake air, with a perfect mix of fuel and air, reduces the amount of gasoline needed by the engine, provided you adjust the O2 sensors. If you have an older car (before O2 sensors) you don’t have that problem.

How high can that mix can be? You tell us, what is your conversion saving in fuel? and how much HHO are you producing? Does the engine temp go up at idle? What size engine are you using? I feel a federal research grant being issued right now! Can we actually do the research ourselves?

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34 Responses

  1. here is some more on why and how it works on a car
    http://www.takeaction.com.au/hoh/Studies/datsun120y.asp

  2. I have been looking at HHO lately. There are all those guides online that claim that it is so easy to do it yourself. But , given the fact that we have to adjust the computer so it does not pump more gas in when it detects more oxygen, then it should really be done by a mehcanic in my opinion.

  3. I’ve been looking at O2 enhancers and Map/Maf enhancers and collecting information on them. It looks as if they are relatively simple devices to use and assemble. But by all means, if your not comfortable splicing wires into existing wires in your car, or locating the correct ones, BY ALL Means, have a competent mechanic, or at least one you trust do the hook ups. We cant all do everything that may be needed to do these changes, and its better to get it right than have to pay for damages to fix wiring.
    If your going to do it yourself, read the directions over and over, test fit, test assemble, etc, as often as you need to get it right before clipping the first wire or turning the first bolt.

  4. A second thought on the O2 sensors.
    From what I am reading on wikpedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_sensor) and other sources, the most that would happen by incorrectly hooking up the O2 enhancer is have the sensor fail. They are probably the cheapest part other than plugs and filter that you can replace. The other thing that can happen is the computer senses a closed loop and sends the richer fuel as if the engine is cold, creating less fuel mileage. BUT, by connecting a hot positive line to the wrong computer connection would/could fry the cars brain and they are expensive. So again read, test fit and practice to make sure you have it right.

  5. I am working on a 07 Toyota and I am having a problem getting arround the O2 sensors. Does anybody have a solution? Would an o2 extender help??
    E-mail me @ runyourcaronh2o@yahoo

    Thanks,

    Curtis

  6. Try it!, and talk to a service tech, my understanding of the cars ‘brain’ in the toyotas is that you can disconnect the battery for at least 30 minutes and the computer resets and starts relearning your driving habits and fuel requirements, can improve things if you’ve recently hauled heavy loads like a trailer or drag racing.
    The service tech might be able to tell you if extender will help, all indications are that they make the engine think its running rich and leans it a bit, which is what you need with hho.

  7. I’m new at all of this. Can someone direct me to information that explains the importance between the liquid ration / amps / gas production / heat / etc. This seems to be a critical area and I want to go in with a better understanding of ow it all works together.
    Thanks

  8. I have heard from hho’ers that we are going at this the wrong way. The map sensor (air pressure sensor) can be fooled by in stalling a potentiometer or pot on one of the leads. The map sensor senses altitude or air pressure, low pressure would indicate high altitude and leaner fuel mix sent to the engine. Has anyone tried this? Any info on, pot size.
    Sounds good does if work?

  9. Ken,
    heres a formula I found for figuring efficiency of the hho cell

    (7744*L)/(V*A*T)=efficiency
    L=liters which in this case is 1
    V=volts
    A=amps
    T=time to produce 1L of gas

    naturally the closer to 100 the more efficient the conversion,
    the amps used can be changed by altering the electrolyte (catalyst) or using a power supply and limiting the amps, or neutral plates. I don’t agree with the power supply unless your going to use it in your application.
    The heat build up is waste or excess amps heating the electrolyte, the lower the efficiency, the more heat.

  10. airman,
    I haven’t put a HHO on an engine with o2, or map yet, but…
    from what I’ve read, the output o2 can be fooled with an extender, the input o2 can be fooled by injecting HHO after the sensor.
    There are several map enhancers available ready built and plans for them, I have several plans I DL’d, but hesitate to add them here because of copyright concerns, just google map enhancers, and map enhancer plans, you’ll find several.
    As to which work, that is something some of the other readers can help us out with.

  11. Dave- you mentioned closed loop as a bad thing. Closed loop is good and that is what you want to keep your car in…”closed loop”. This means the ECM is using the O2 sensor to regulate a/f ratio. The system go’s into open loop when it detects a fault, resulting in default fuel settings being very rich.

    We use O2 enhancers- or called EFIE’s to cause a voltage offset to make the ECM believe we are running richer than we really are. The O2 sensor works between .1v to .9v and the EFIE can offset this volage a certain degree. It is important to know that you cannot use a resistor in place of the EFIE for the fact that the ECM would then be seeing a fixed voltage and the ECM would go into open loop thinking the sensor is bad.

    Now, the other problem we deal with is with A/F ratio sensors. More and more cars are becoming equipped with A/F ratio sensors compared to O2 sensors. Believe it or not most mechanics think they are the same. Do not believe them as the sensors work very differently. Most toyotas and some Hondas have AFR sensors pre cat and an O2 sensors after cat. We only need to play w/ the pre cat sensor. So, how do you know if you have a AFR sensor or O2? Check emission sticker under the hood or check your wiring diagram. The EFIE will not work with an AFR sensor. This sensor actually works off of current draw – not voltage like an O2. So, how do we fool the ECM with this then? Easy, with this sensor all you need is a 25ohm 3 watt pot, which you can buy at radio shack. Place the pot in series on the signal wire (usually blue). Typical offset will be 5-15 ohms. I use one on my 2003 Honda accord set at 15 ohms and the car stutters a bit, I tuned it to 12 ohms and it runs perfect. My car is using a HHO cell that produces 1LPM fed at the air box.

    Hope this info helps someone.

  12. Thanks for the correction! Stuff like this is what everyone needs to know, and correctly!
    Thanks again….

  13. Mojon,
    How about giving us some details on your Honda?
    You know, stuff like mpg before and after, HFE Cell type, amps, etc …..
    We’d all appreciate some inspiration, and maybe some pics!

  14. Hey Mojon,
    I have an o3 accord v6 that I’ve installed an HHo device on and everything I try to get better mileage isn’t working.
    I tried wrapping the o2 sensors. Nothing.
    I tried the extenders. Nothing.
    I have a MAP sensor enhancer and all it seems to do is lower the throttle response and make my tranny shift funny.
    My car runs better since the HHo device was installed but the mileage has not increased any and may have actually decreased.

    Do I have the same AFR sensor that you have? If so will you go into great detail as to your setup and how I can do it too? Please keep it simple.

    If you don’t mind please email me at freedom4all@bellsouth.net

    Thanks in advance for all your help.

  15. I’ll provide pics and stats when I have all complete. I’m working on results for all city, all hwy, a mix… over 10 tanks. I will provide many stats soon. My cell produces 1LPM at 15 amps. It is a fully saturated cell type with continuous water circulation. No need for PWM- my design will not get over 17 amps for any period of time. It stays nice and cool. It’s consists of 9 plates.

    To Denada,, please answer these questions…
    1. How much HHO per minute are you producing at how many amps?
    2. Where do you have the gas hose connected? intake maifold? air box?

    1st, do not wrap your O2 sensor – huge waste of time as you figured out. You could never come close to properly tuning your vehicle doing this. 2nd, forget the O2 extendors—for the same reason. 3rd, there is never a need to fool with your load balancing sensors, ie MAP sensor. I would most definitely bet you have an AFR sensor pre cat. Check your emissions sticker under your hood. If you can’t find that, buy electronic schematics online. If it says A/F ratio sensor then there you go…
    buy the schematic here… http://www.ahdol.com/

    If you have an AFR- like I said above, get yourself a 25ohm 3 watt pot from radio shack….you only need to wire to 2 prongs– the middle prong and the right prong or left prong- depending oh which way you want to turn to increase resistance. Use your multi meter to test ohms. Place it in series (blue wire) and start with about 10ohms- you will have to simply adjust to how your car operates and feels best. DO NOT ALLOW your car to run hot by over leaning.

    Good Luck and let me know how it works. Producing at least 1 LPM at 15 amps and a properly tuned vehicle should get your 25-30% increase in mpg for a new fuel injected type car.

    Let me know

  16. Mojon,
    when you get pics, plans, etc for your cell, i’d like to feature it
    on the Featured Cell Type page, and the HFE Cells in Use page

  17. Sorry if I mislead anyone with my post above about adjusting your AFR sensor with a 25 ohm pot. My original test results were either miscalculated or just plain stopped working with the ecu from self readjusting??? I haven’t a clue. After further testing another 400 miles- the AFR pot proved not to be working to increase mpg. I have ran tests at 12ohms and additional tests at 25 ohms,,, no change! mpg did not increase nor decrease while feeding my intake with 1LPM of HHO.

    Much research needs to be done to fool the AFR. If anyone has a suggestion, please post to this board or email me.

    Thanks! Mojon

  18. Mojon, I have my generator set at 11 amps, via pot hydroxide , I have not recvd my effie from Eagle yet. Is it hard to hook up the Effie ?

  19. Brian,
    as soon as you get some test data, how about sharing the details with us on the HFE Cells in Use page

  20. Mojon,
    as soon as you get some test data, how about sharing the details with us on the HFE Cells in Use page

  21. daveand5 et al,
    I’ve gone the water4gas route right the way through and the path took me to eliminating the O2 sensors completely…remember that when you first start your engine (this with OBDII) the O2 sensors are running open loop anyway until about 670 to 680 degF sensor temp is reached (they even have heaters incorporated to speed this process). All you’re doing is splicing in series to the return signal conductor to the ECU with a determined value to fool it into thinking it sees proper unburned oxygen levels at the downstream sensor. The car I’ve been using is a 2001 Chrysler Sebring w/a 2.7L v6. It has a 3 wire manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensor. One wire is a 5v supply, another wire is a 5v return to the ECU (as long as the ECU sees the 5v return on this wire uninterrupted it figures it can trust the signal from the third wire). This third wire is the one you cut & splice into with your determined resistance…I’ve been using a fixed value for both city & hiway driving so far with acceptible results. My setup is “box stock” water4gas…a single quart jar, distilled water, anywhere from 1 to 2 tablespoons per quart (yes tablespoons). My electrode is 316L wire that I spiral wind w/a hand drill, 2 strands for the cathode, 4 for the anode. I got an increase from 25.5/26 mpg to 32/32.5 mpg on my test loop (a standard week of driving to work & back only).
    Re: the “magnetism” comments, remember from your early kitchen physics days that any time you introduce electron flow (current) through a conductor you produce a magnetic field around that conductor…also remember that anything trying to move current through a resistance will produce heat – that’s as complicated as this process really gets………

  22. faz,
    glad to see the facts and details that work for your car and you,
    any chance of pics of the setup under the hood?
    Also, any problems show up with the unit? and how did you solve them?

  23. Hey Dave,
    My installation is atrocious – still all temporary. I’ve decided to sell the car (time to anyway), & buy something with more room underhood – you’ll see why when I fwd some photos later – the point of the whole drill to me was to prove viability & on that score it’s been a success. Give me a few days to shoot & fwd. By the way, thanks for this forum…it’s much needed.

  24. More on basics (from a very basic experimenter)
    The way around O2 sensors is to eliminate the darn things…they are what’s used to decide to enrich the mixture again, just what we’re trying to defeat – Rather than let the differential be per the manufacturers design, feed the ECU what you want it to see…the object of the fixed resistors & pots is to drain or shunt part of the (5 vdc in my cars’ case) to chassis ground & only give the ECU enough of a signal to let the engine run properly. You’re already getting around the pinging by the moisture enhancement inherent as a byproduct of the HHO feed. Remember how the NASCAR guys used to go to great lengths to achieve “water injection”? We already do this by virtue of the added HHO getting to the combustion cycle. I don’t know in exactly what sequence this all takes place but, HHO is better atomizing the fuel & at some point becomes recombinent as water (consuming heat to do so), then expanding as steam (consuming some heat to do so) thus aiding the power stroke, towards the end of which it condenses back to water (consuming heat again) to travel out the exhaust. The net result is that the HHO enhancement helps your engine run COOLER. Neat, huh?

  25. How much HHO ? quick note – The figure I came up with reading water4gas is 96 or 97% HHO as the practical maximum. Interesting as HHO was one of the first internal combustion fuels until the waste product of gasoline became cheaply available…The reason you have to have some petroleum based fuel in the mix isn’t for combustion efficiency but because if you fuel a ferrous content engine with hydrogen & oxygen you’re going to get……..rust.

  26. faz,
    would you explain “96 or 97% HHO as the practical maximum”.
    Are you saying that an ICE would run on that amount? what would the other 3-4% be?
    Or are you saying the HHO mix of water vapor and HHO created by the HFE Cell should be 96-97% HHO?
    My figures indicated that an ICE draws too much external air to run on pure HHO, it would lean the ICE down too far for ignition, unless the air intake was modified.
    And if all HHO and no external air, the fuel would be too much for the current ICE’s to handle without destructive consequences. After all, there is 3x the energy in the HHO that gas has, and increasing an ICE to that level of power would be disastrous.
    What I would like to see is an actual test, adding HFE cells, one at a time, and the change in mpg. Is there a practical limit of adding HFE cells? does the mpg increase with 2lpm, 3lpm, 4lpm,5lpm? Or does the mpg stabilize at a specific lpm for a certain engine size? Or does the mpg or performance suffer after a certain amount, or are modifications to the ICE needed after a specific amount?
    My question I guess is, if I gained 25% with 1lpm, would I gain another 25% with 2lpm, or is the overall gain decreased? say only 40% instead of 50%. And what are the results of 3lpm. I realize engine size (cubic inches/liters) will change the amount of HHO required, but it may be directly convertible to different size engines. Like if a 1.5L ICE got best mpg at 2lpm, would a 2L engine get the best mpg at 2.6lpm?

  27. Has anyone tried using an 02 sensor with an EFIF enhancer ?
    I have three 316L S.S. 9 plate cells plate size 2.5 ” x 4-1/4″ surface area +NNN-NNN+ running 5amps cold 7 amps hot.
    Seems like there is plenty of hho being produced.
    I have hooked up the EFIF enhancer but when I first start up the engine it hunts for awhile, Approximately 2 to 3 minutes even when the engine is still warm.
    I was using the extender but took it out when I hooked up the EFIE enhancer.
    It did not hunt like this when the extender was in use.
    This is installed on a 2000 Buick Century 3.1 V6.
    I tried the HHO Development MAP/MAF and it did not have any dial range as I believe the MAF and MAP are varied frequency ? I contacted the Buick dealer and they could not tell me for certain.
    Any suggestions?

    Bill

  28. Correcting my last post. Has anyone tried using an 02 sensor extender while using an EFIE single 02 enhancer.
    trying to stop engine from hunting.
    I have recently installed a 3 jar series with (9 )316L .050 Stainless steel plates setup -NNN+NNN- I am using a single EFIE 02 enhancer with a 270 degree pot. The plate size in these jars are 2.5″ x 4.75″ and there is still good clearance in the jars.
    This is installed on a 2000 Buick Century with a 3100 V6 engine currently getting 33 mpg city 37 highway.
    Stock approx.28.mpg.
    The EFIE has seemed to help but I still get the hunting between temps.
    once it warms up it appears to smooth out,but I think that when it hunts like it does that preventing the engine from geting better gas mileage.
    any suggestions?

  29. I have gone through the posts and common thing that comes around is fooling O2 sensor.

    I have used a 47K pot in the circuit it does help a bit but I loose a lot of power while driving. I have learned from a lot of resources that if the gas generation is more than 1.5 LPM then you are going to start seeing gains. if it is less than 1 LPM there are all the chances that you will see lesser MPG.

  30. Prabhat,

    Thanks for the reply,I have since re installed the extender and and re configured my plate design and am seeing some awesome results.
    I am finding that you want to use less amperage keeping amps. below 10.
    Now I am getting a constant 8 to 10 mpg increase.
    This is with aa extender only.
    I am using 316L S.S. Plates -n+n-n+n- with an 1/8″ gap.
    My jars stay cool and I am only using a 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda wiyh distilled water.
    I do not even bother with the EFIE any more because the extenders work full time as the EFIE does nut control the in between engine temps.
    Also I found sealing the edges of my plate design helps with the production of HHO.
    I you want you can visit my site @ HTTP;// http://www.hydro-extra.webs.com.
    This nine plate design is the way to go.

  31. We build custom Pulse Width Modulators for HHO Systems which are completely enclosed with switches, relays, fans and Led’s.

    Check us out at http://www.extremehho.com

  32. [...] Why HHO works to save fuel HHO Fuel Maybe the 0 thing is the reason for this controversy. [...]

  33. Interesting writing=D I will definitely visit soon.

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